I'm certain that together we can get FSA on the map and taken seriously, especially given there is now a quantitative peer-reviewed study to refer to. I'm glad you're here, Rosalee, you add so much to our community with your comments and your support to other members. Including me! 😄
Rebecca you have made major inroads in getting FSA on the map with the published study! Congrats and many thanks to you! And thank you so much for your comment, that means a lot to me! 💕🙏 😊
Convincing others that FSA exists seems obvious to me or anyone who has experienced it first hand, but can you help me understand what it gets us as survivors? Ty for any insight! Namaste Mo
PS, I may have misunderstood your question but be that as it may, the more that other people understand FSA is real in that scapegoating exists in all human systems, there might eventually be more funding for research, more recognition in the mental health field of FSA, and more resources and targeted help for FSA survivors.
This is why I have been working so hard to get my research published in a peer-reviewed journal, which has finally happened.
If you're talking about your own family members understanding, or 'convincing others' - well, you really can't. 'Closed' (dysfunctional or narcissistic) family systems produce 'closed'-minded people, for the most part, unless they can individuate beyond this unconscious and unspoken mandate. A few in the nuclear or extended family might be open to learning these things but most are not, sadly. Systems thinking in general is not typical, especially in Western society, which is more focused on the individual and not the collective.
Also: Because if they recognized the reality of FSA they might have to look at their behavior and be accountable for harm's caused to the target of FSA. Most family members in these types of dysfunctional families that scapegoat do not have the ego strength for this.
I hope I answered your question - If not, let me know and/or ask me in the Livestream this Friday if you can make it!
Thank you so much for the framework around FSA and advocation and education as a practitioner and researcher it’s helpful to know how best to support getting the word out and where to spend energy
Love your insight and always learn something new about how to help myself heal to then help someone else
Your work has helped so many including me Ty namaste Mo
Great question, Mosis. Understanding what happened to you and understanding that it is systemic and has nothing to do with you, really, can be very freeing to survivors when they first learn about this phenomenon that I named Family Scapegoating Abuse (FSA). It is a key step to healing, and I also provided a nomenclature - terms and language - to describe one's experience. I'll be discussing all of this in my live stream this Friday by the way.
The fact that I now have both qualitative and quantitative peer-reviewed research to back up my conception of FSA can also give survivors confidence that what happened to them was / is real. Knowing what happened also allows for a pathway to treatment and recovery. For example my research consistently revealed that many FSA survivors suffer from undiagnosed complex trauma and betrayal trauma symptoms along with toxic shame, as discussed in my book, Rejected, Shamed and Blamed.
Does this make sense? I'm curious: How do you think it might have helped you? What do you get out of my work here? Or my book?
I’m so over “whispering.” My lifetime of silence in response to awful behavior, always rationalized as being respectful and peaceful, has done nothing but acquiesce the endless barrage of increasingly outrageous false accusations against my character that have no basis in reality.
They don’t even know me as an adult - haven’t seen nor spoken to me in years. They know nothing about my day to day existence, yet every so often, I run into an old friend or acquaintance, who mentions that they were a bit concerned about me, as my Dad requested the entire church pray for his daughter, as she’s [INSERT ALL THE WORST THINGS YOU COULD EVER BE ACCUSED OF THEN MULTIPLY IT BY 10 HERE.]
And, I finally found the perfect way to address this issue with an appropriate response: “I heard about that. Of course, it’s all nonsense, as you can see I’m quite fine. Does it sound like the symptoms of dementia to you, too?”
I’d be honored!!! Are you kidding?! I actually thought I might get chastised, as I would never make light of such a devastating illness, but I it totally shuts down the rumor mill and isn’t an outrageous attack based upon a moral failing. Just a possibility, you know?
Gosh, you’re so perceptive. I didn’t even realize that I even mentioned that I was concerned about the possibility of being judged for what some might consider “offensive.” Because that’s would have resulted in an punishable offense - usually a month or three of a never ending verbal berating of every single thing that was “wrong with me” after being judged or misunderstood by my own parents. It’s still a struggle. I thank you for your keen observation - it helps to have a sensible, discerning point of view from someone who understands. 🙏
This is something I know very well too. The feeling of mistepping or overstepping and not realising how or what you have done to invite such a consequence. And, it goes on and on and on..no wonder, it is so hard to heal from.
I’m so sorry that you too, know that awful sinking feeling of impending doom because you suddenly realize you have crossed an invisible line of non-existence in our reality - yet is still very much a delusion of which may or may not truly be “real” to only them.
It’s a zero sum game in which they created, wrote the rules, and then forced you to play - they don’t teach you the objective of the game or provide you with the rules - because they expect you to magically just know these things - and then they just cheat anyway!
(this has some relvancy to to the stigma of being brokem and truamtised ) I (bit of ironic sarcasm here) well of course im mentally unblanced,,,,,,i had psychotic breaks with OCD,,,,of course it my own instabilty my madness,,,,,nad yet how strange what happned in these breaks was revelations of the truth of what happned that was so deeply hidden in choldhood baby abbuse,,,so where exactly is the madness,,,,,my reaction or the violent abuse that caused it? () I hope i can say this one day and destigmatise my self a little more
Exactly this! I have tears welling once again. This is my story! I am 61 years old I am the eldest of 4 siblings. I've suffered scapegoat abuse for my entire life. Emotional, mental, spiritual, and possibly physical abuse (just connecting with this) from both my parents. My siblings too got in on the act. I was the identified patient. The real issues were these: alcoholism, narcissism, mental illness, and multi-generational trauma. I was in and out of therapy since I was a teenager. I was told I was too sensitive, a loser, a brat, bad, crazy...you name it! The addiction, mental illness, abuse, and trauma in my family spanned generations. My brother (golden child) ended up in rehab at age 18. Both parents began to understand they were alcoholics. They got sober with the help of AA. My brother and they worked hard to stay sober. This was great but the dysfunctional behaviors within the family stayed. Then, my youngest sister(lost child) tried to commit suicide. She was not successful & she too went to rehab, which was outpatient. She did go to meetings for awhile. Then, she tried to kill herself a second time. She got more help, on meds for depression etc. I know she is still sober but I do not believe that she ever attends meetings or gets therapy or meds. My other sister (the clown/mascot/peacemaker) married an alcoholic who is sober. Sobriety is a blessing but the dysfunction has remained. The denial of this dysfunction, this inability to see that the "Pink Elephant", is still pervasive in my family. Accept for me, the truth-teller/scapegoat who continues to see it and name it and am vilified for pointing it out. My parents are old. They are sober still as are my other 2 siblings. I have gone no contact with my father & did come to reestablish some relationship with him. Therapy helped me to understand all these dynamics better & helped me to set up boundaries for myself. My parents have never made amends to me. My father has tried to in his own way. I stick to my boundaries & I can be with him in a relationship that I can tolerate. My mother on the other hand is a narcissist and has borderline personality disorder and PTSD. I would describe our relationship as "push me, pull me". Her love is and always has been conditional. She tells people different things, especially siblings & other family. Her communication is triggering. She will put out "ziggers" as I call them to stop me in my tracks especially if i'm confronting her about something. She is mean, hateful, angry, joyless, judgemental, and needy. Especially towards me. Any boundaries that I put up are dismissed and violated. The last straw, for me, occurred last November. I went no contact with her. I have seen her twice since. There is a family "group text" I am still on. I do not respond to what she says on it. I have been much more calm & peaceful internally since going no contact. I see a trauma-informed therapist who I see once a week who is wonderful and supportive of what I need to do for me. This weekend is my my Mother's birthday & mother's day. I will not contact her. I too am a Mother, Grandmother, Wife (40 years), & many other roles as well. I raised my children 100% differently. I had to do a geographical cure at one point, although my mother followed us. My parents divorced when I was 30. It was a nasty divorce & my mother constantly tried to draw me in as her ally. She lived two doors away from us so we moved. Finally, she moved back to our hometown which helped a lot. Then we moved back too...long story. All the dysfunction, denial, the "pink elephant", the boundary violations, the scapegoating etc. were still hanging around my family, especially when we gathered together. Two siblings live further away so this doesn't happen often. Even partial gatherings or even one-on-one get togethers could turn on a dime into a scapegoating attack on me. Now, I am taking care of myself. My husband supports me. It is hard to limit or stop contact but I am determined to break this cycle and be as well as I can be for the years that I have left on this planet. My grandchildren deserve a Grammy who models self-love and self-cared. The hard work continues but it is worth it!
Lisa, I thank you deeply for this comment. Your family dynamics will surely mirror those of many of us here, and they certainly mirror stories of respondents to my original FSA research questionnaires. I'm relieved to hear that you have appropriate / necessary boundaries in place. Necessary if one is to heal and experience peace of mind and soul - which you can't put a price on. In regard to trying to make family or other people 'get it' - I discussed this at length about 3/4 of the way into my Livestream this past Wednesday - Linking you to it here. Use the transcript and search on ''don't get it' and it should take you to that part of my talk: https://familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/family-scapegoat-education-rebecca-mandeville
Thank you Laura. I am definitely a survivor as are you & many of us here. Getting therapy is so important in my opinion. I understand about your sister. The second time I did feel numb and that scared me! She is a survivor too, which I am grateful for.
Very well said! I too took a stand w/my older brother this past June, for all that your post stated! In late 24 I turned 70 and I’ve taken the stance you stated. I call it my turning point! No more am I playing the unfruitful dance of “one way friendship.” I’m a very good person, who always gives people the benefit of the doubt but when I realize things aren’t reciprocated & we’re not having fun that’s it for me. It’s their loss and I’ll extend my efforts elsewhere that bear more fruit for me.
Yes! It does seem when we get to a certain age we really are just done. When we are younger and conditioned into being bullied and dominated, it can take a lot - and a long, long time - to wake up to it, stand up to it - and decide: GAME OVER. (Never consented to play it in the first place).
Oh yes, that is the sad truth Rebecca. When I was younger I was too conditioned to put up with the degrading and cruel behaviors, didn't want to draw more of their fire, just wanted to keep the peace, etc. but it came with a huge cost.
Thank you! Excellent piece Rebecca! So much rings true for me.
Especially this...."You were little more than a toy, an object; something to control, use, abuse, and discard."
That is exactly how it goes, use you, abuse you and then discard you like a piece of trash.
Your work is instrumental in helping people realize just how abusive and unrelenting the FSA/IP narrative is so that FSA survivors can stand up and protect themselves much sooner.
You're welcome. I was inspired by Zawn Villines of Liberating Motherhood. Her description of home appliance treatment in heterosexual relationships was eye - opening and made me aware of similar dynamic in other abusive relationships
Oh, you must read this Sylvia Plath poem then, if you don’t already know it. Of course, she committed suicide by sticking her head into an appliance (oven)… The poem is called ‘The Applicant’: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57419/the-applicant
Ah, yes! I’m only vaguely familiar with Liberating Motherhood on Substack. I must read more of her work. I’m grateful for the recommendation. She nailed it! 😊
omg i know i'm about to have my mind blown by this work... wow... I'm nervited (nervous/excited ) thito pursue it because this is the literal dynamic i'm waking up to in my marriage. I stopped being an appliance. Now my husband talks about all the old friends of his he wants to see. I'm like, "Oh? You're looking forward to seeing them? To hanging out?" His response is "I want to talk about myself and have someone be interested"
Well motherfucker so do i but that's why i have a therapist and friends, you treat me like a kitchen appliance - there when you need it for xyz function.
Oh I needed to hear this today. This whole year has been about rising up and finding my own voice..slowly but surely and to finally feel and know I am my own shield..🎁💕thx to you, your book and the Grp and my daily somatic technics..blessed!
Thx for asking Mike. It’s called a bottom up therapy that deals with our nervous system. Trauma is held in the cells of our body. The healing then is to come from a place of safety. The techniques which involve somatic exercises is breath work, movement and sound…I took courses on it. When my nervous system is regulated I feel safe inside, and calm. It has helped me heal and my feelings don’t seem to high or low. YouTube has a lot of free information on it. Therapy for in a Nutshell..explains it well..Also Peter Levine on The Vagus Nerve..hope this helps…😊
Oof, the awakening was the most maddeningly painful thing I have ever experienced. It's worse the closer you are to them or the better they've been able to deceive you. Thank you for sharing and encouragement!
Particularly difficult in collective cultures, as mentioned in my Livestream this week (great to see you there, btw) or families (like the Kennedy's) where the collective 'good' is enforced.
I'm afraid I don't know that much about the Kennedy's 😅. Yeah I had to break some very tall expectations and even though no one was being helpful they made me feel like a psychopath for setting boundaries of any kind. That's how I wound up in therapy and became the Identified Patient haha. I would also say that when I asserted myself and took back control of my life, they started having the existential tantrum instead because their little box of secrets was no longer in their grasp. I did not enjoy their terror, but I had to put them in the water to show them it doesn't bite I guess.
PS - Re: Kennedy's: Think family as football team, determined to win. And if you are a family member that can't play on the team, you're a big loser. (A developmentally disabled sister of JFK was given a lobotomy and shut away, for the most part - This is one such example. Classic narcissistic family system, with their father Joseph being the malignant narcissist and the mother being the enabler).
Yes - and we FSA targets ARE that little box of secrets. If you haven’t seen this video of mine on what happens when you start to heal and set appropriate boundaries, you may want to do so. Link here: https://youtu.be/gLptzBP_Arw
Thank you, I found it an odd blend of prose and poetry but I was pleased with the end result. I love that I can do anything I want here in my personal reflections Substack, ha!
Powerful article ....what's struck me the most is the desperation of adult siblings to keep the fantasy . I am not entirely ready yet . But I'm tired of them. They don't deserve any more confrontations or explanations. I'm too exhausted and I have to move forever ..I'm feeling such physical pain these last few days in my stomach beelly ..intense clenching ...perhaps that the clutching at straws stool.. intense cold and heat ....hard to comprehend ..
Most of my trauma symptoms go to my stomach since childhood. Intense, terrible clenching, and then more recently heat, which I attribute to repressed rage. It is quite a journey, isn't it, healing from FSA...
thank you so much for enaaging rebecca ..its truly apprecated .i suppose for me is to try and acknowledge the message of that rage - and the action it requires just expressing it is pretty endless , though it def helps sometimes as it did me last wekk,,though frankly it wouldnt be neccessary if they were open to acknolwedging the hurt in both ther lives and mine,,,without acknoeledging our hurts how can we have compassion for each other,,,thats the whole point of a family or any relationship.. this is what im trying to put more and more into words...for them and myself. my expectaatrions they will consider it are very low...its more about there i made the offer ,i explained without all anger,,including explaining why one is driven to anger by the silence ..and for me ultimatly if i go no cnact even further than i have been ...i dont want my own anger to destroy me..(ie never get resolved),,but its tricky balance because if i dont just allow the anger ,at least in private ,,i dont get the clarity
yes rebecca thank i listened . i basically just preparing myself for the inevitable end -the sooner the better . weve pretty much been no contaact for years already but thats not enough it seems for them to take the hint so im just preparing myself to make it abundantly clear i want no further contact....one thign is holding me back ,,,but im going to overcome that too
Yes we do - not the same days as in the US. I used to call my father to congratulate him, and he always said «I don’t care about Father’s day». I just understood that he doesn’t care about beeing a father 🤓. Or maybe he doesn’t understand that he is a father?
I care a lot about Mother’s day but my own children and husband don’t celebrate me to the level I believe I deserve 🤓🤓
Several years ago I bought 2 big mugs that were on sale - I thought I just liked the size because they are big. One says, “How beautiful you are,” and the other says, “You make me smile.” I think my subconscious read them before I noticed them. One of my scoffers saw them on my counter and smirked. Sicko. They look different to me now - like a smile for me.
It is a strange thing Mike. I have grieved the mother wound. The lack of mothering and the lack of fathering. So when these days show up, I feel that I am the mother. That I mother myself. And maybe that is how it is ment to be? We start out with a mother and eventually we mother ourselves 🌱
Last week I asked the director of the DV shelter if I could send her an email including the PSA video that Rebecca did. I thought it was so moving and well done. I sent it to her and gave her a copy of Rebecca’s book. But I’m new there and can’t be too pushy, so I’ll give it some time before I ask her what she thought—or wait until she brings it up. I donated art supplies for them to use when they do one on one counseling with kids.
I like the idea of trying to focus more on becoming my own protector, and thank you for that Rebecca—-and I’m also trying to pay more attention to my life long need to try to prove my worth. It’s a tough fine line for me though as I do care deeply about So Many Things. ——As I continue to get settled in my new place I am noticing how loving my neighbors are, with each other and their family members. It’s such a glaring difference from my experience—-makes the tears come, but also gives me some hope. There aren’t any perfect families for sure. But there Are more functional families that we can try to become more connected to.
Thank you, Laura, I really appreciate this! I have many ideas percolating but I also feel a grave sense of responsibility to continue co-authoring peer-reviewed quantitative research on FSA because this is how you get the mental health field to take it seriously.
Oh my … YES! Very quietly for me, but definitely yes. And, their rejection, odd as it may seem, is a big plus as long as they stay away from me. Which mine, for the most part, do. Enough! Done! When I get to that point, any ‘emotional feeling’ for them is gone. I only just now read this part of the post. The first part was a doozy, and I had to take it in parts, slowly. While I never really caved to their “stuff,” standing against it wore me out, like a statue being chipped at from the bottom until it keels over, which I did. Then was told, “You can’t be THAT tired,” “Why should YOU feel worn out?” “It’s just your imagination.” (Lots of stories could be told). And other such lovely sentiments. At times, I wish I could express such uncaring attitudes, and be as mean-spirited as they (foo and some others) are. But, then again, just being me seems to drive them nutsy enough. Thank you, Rebecca, for this.
You're so welcome, you got some great analogies going on here, I love this visual of the statue being chipped from the bottom! And yes, I simply could not imagine treating some family members in the manner I have been treated. The fact is, they treat their pets better.
I'm certain that together we can get FSA on the map and taken seriously, especially given there is now a quantitative peer-reviewed study to refer to. I'm glad you're here, Rosalee, you add so much to our community with your comments and your support to other members. Including me! 😄
Rebecca you have made major inroads in getting FSA on the map with the published study! Congrats and many thanks to you! And thank you so much for your comment, that means a lot to me! 💕🙏 😊
Hi Ms. Rebecca -
Convincing others that FSA exists seems obvious to me or anyone who has experienced it first hand, but can you help me understand what it gets us as survivors? Ty for any insight! Namaste Mo
PS, I may have misunderstood your question but be that as it may, the more that other people understand FSA is real in that scapegoating exists in all human systems, there might eventually be more funding for research, more recognition in the mental health field of FSA, and more resources and targeted help for FSA survivors.
This is why I have been working so hard to get my research published in a peer-reviewed journal, which has finally happened.
If you're talking about your own family members understanding, or 'convincing others' - well, you really can't. 'Closed' (dysfunctional or narcissistic) family systems produce 'closed'-minded people, for the most part, unless they can individuate beyond this unconscious and unspoken mandate. A few in the nuclear or extended family might be open to learning these things but most are not, sadly. Systems thinking in general is not typical, especially in Western society, which is more focused on the individual and not the collective.
Also: Because if they recognized the reality of FSA they might have to look at their behavior and be accountable for harm's caused to the target of FSA. Most family members in these types of dysfunctional families that scapegoat do not have the ego strength for this.
I hope I answered your question - If not, let me know and/or ask me in the Livestream this Friday if you can make it!
Thank you so much for the framework around FSA and advocation and education as a practitioner and researcher it’s helpful to know how best to support getting the word out and where to spend energy
Love your insight and always learn something new about how to help myself heal to then help someone else
Your work has helped so many including me Ty namaste Mo
You're so welcome, Mosis, love having you in our community! 💖
Great question, Mosis. Understanding what happened to you and understanding that it is systemic and has nothing to do with you, really, can be very freeing to survivors when they first learn about this phenomenon that I named Family Scapegoating Abuse (FSA). It is a key step to healing, and I also provided a nomenclature - terms and language - to describe one's experience. I'll be discussing all of this in my live stream this Friday by the way.
The fact that I now have both qualitative and quantitative peer-reviewed research to back up my conception of FSA can also give survivors confidence that what happened to them was / is real. Knowing what happened also allows for a pathway to treatment and recovery. For example my research consistently revealed that many FSA survivors suffer from undiagnosed complex trauma and betrayal trauma symptoms along with toxic shame, as discussed in my book, Rejected, Shamed and Blamed.
Does this make sense? I'm curious: How do you think it might have helped you? What do you get out of my work here? Or my book?
I’m so over “whispering.” My lifetime of silence in response to awful behavior, always rationalized as being respectful and peaceful, has done nothing but acquiesce the endless barrage of increasingly outrageous false accusations against my character that have no basis in reality.
They don’t even know me as an adult - haven’t seen nor spoken to me in years. They know nothing about my day to day existence, yet every so often, I run into an old friend or acquaintance, who mentions that they were a bit concerned about me, as my Dad requested the entire church pray for his daughter, as she’s [INSERT ALL THE WORST THINGS YOU COULD EVER BE ACCUSED OF THEN MULTIPLY IT BY 10 HERE.]
And, I finally found the perfect way to address this issue with an appropriate response: “I heard about that. Of course, it’s all nonsense, as you can see I’m quite fine. Does it sound like the symptoms of dementia to you, too?”
HA!!!! I LOVE THIS! Bridget, can I restack this in my notes? Toooo good!!
I’d be honored!!! Are you kidding?! I actually thought I might get chastised, as I would never make light of such a devastating illness, but I it totally shuts down the rumor mill and isn’t an outrageous attack based upon a moral failing. Just a possibility, you know?
It is PERFECT - and if you don't mind, I'll be sharing your response technique with others here and outside of Substack.
Genuis and I totally get that feeling of ‘i might be chastised’ it sits next to me alot too. Further validation of the harm you underwent.
Gosh, you’re so perceptive. I didn’t even realize that I even mentioned that I was concerned about the possibility of being judged for what some might consider “offensive.” Because that’s would have resulted in an punishable offense - usually a month or three of a never ending verbal berating of every single thing that was “wrong with me” after being judged or misunderstood by my own parents. It’s still a struggle. I thank you for your keen observation - it helps to have a sensible, discerning point of view from someone who understands. 🙏
This is something I know very well too. The feeling of mistepping or overstepping and not realising how or what you have done to invite such a consequence. And, it goes on and on and on..no wonder, it is so hard to heal from.
I’m so sorry that you too, know that awful sinking feeling of impending doom because you suddenly realize you have crossed an invisible line of non-existence in our reality - yet is still very much a delusion of which may or may not truly be “real” to only them.
It’s a zero sum game in which they created, wrote the rules, and then forced you to play - they don’t teach you the objective of the game or provide you with the rules - because they expect you to magically just know these things - and then they just cheat anyway!
😊💜
(this has some relvancy to to the stigma of being brokem and truamtised ) I (bit of ironic sarcasm here) well of course im mentally unblanced,,,,,,i had psychotic breaks with OCD,,,,of course it my own instabilty my madness,,,,,nad yet how strange what happned in these breaks was revelations of the truth of what happned that was so deeply hidden in choldhood baby abbuse,,,so where exactly is the madness,,,,,my reaction or the violent abuse that caused it? () I hope i can say this one day and destigmatise my self a little more
"What's madness but nobility of soul at odds with circumstance?" (From the poem 'In a Dark Time' by Theodore Roethke).
thank you ill keep that quote,, psychosis these days only engenders stigma mostly,,a few more poepl need to hear that
Me, too, Mike - wrote it down in “my book.”
Oh this is so great!!! 😃
🙏
Exactly this! I have tears welling once again. This is my story! I am 61 years old I am the eldest of 4 siblings. I've suffered scapegoat abuse for my entire life. Emotional, mental, spiritual, and possibly physical abuse (just connecting with this) from both my parents. My siblings too got in on the act. I was the identified patient. The real issues were these: alcoholism, narcissism, mental illness, and multi-generational trauma. I was in and out of therapy since I was a teenager. I was told I was too sensitive, a loser, a brat, bad, crazy...you name it! The addiction, mental illness, abuse, and trauma in my family spanned generations. My brother (golden child) ended up in rehab at age 18. Both parents began to understand they were alcoholics. They got sober with the help of AA. My brother and they worked hard to stay sober. This was great but the dysfunctional behaviors within the family stayed. Then, my youngest sister(lost child) tried to commit suicide. She was not successful & she too went to rehab, which was outpatient. She did go to meetings for awhile. Then, she tried to kill herself a second time. She got more help, on meds for depression etc. I know she is still sober but I do not believe that she ever attends meetings or gets therapy or meds. My other sister (the clown/mascot/peacemaker) married an alcoholic who is sober. Sobriety is a blessing but the dysfunction has remained. The denial of this dysfunction, this inability to see that the "Pink Elephant", is still pervasive in my family. Accept for me, the truth-teller/scapegoat who continues to see it and name it and am vilified for pointing it out. My parents are old. They are sober still as are my other 2 siblings. I have gone no contact with my father & did come to reestablish some relationship with him. Therapy helped me to understand all these dynamics better & helped me to set up boundaries for myself. My parents have never made amends to me. My father has tried to in his own way. I stick to my boundaries & I can be with him in a relationship that I can tolerate. My mother on the other hand is a narcissist and has borderline personality disorder and PTSD. I would describe our relationship as "push me, pull me". Her love is and always has been conditional. She tells people different things, especially siblings & other family. Her communication is triggering. She will put out "ziggers" as I call them to stop me in my tracks especially if i'm confronting her about something. She is mean, hateful, angry, joyless, judgemental, and needy. Especially towards me. Any boundaries that I put up are dismissed and violated. The last straw, for me, occurred last November. I went no contact with her. I have seen her twice since. There is a family "group text" I am still on. I do not respond to what she says on it. I have been much more calm & peaceful internally since going no contact. I see a trauma-informed therapist who I see once a week who is wonderful and supportive of what I need to do for me. This weekend is my my Mother's birthday & mother's day. I will not contact her. I too am a Mother, Grandmother, Wife (40 years), & many other roles as well. I raised my children 100% differently. I had to do a geographical cure at one point, although my mother followed us. My parents divorced when I was 30. It was a nasty divorce & my mother constantly tried to draw me in as her ally. She lived two doors away from us so we moved. Finally, she moved back to our hometown which helped a lot. Then we moved back too...long story. All the dysfunction, denial, the "pink elephant", the boundary violations, the scapegoating etc. were still hanging around my family, especially when we gathered together. Two siblings live further away so this doesn't happen often. Even partial gatherings or even one-on-one get togethers could turn on a dime into a scapegoating attack on me. Now, I am taking care of myself. My husband supports me. It is hard to limit or stop contact but I am determined to break this cycle and be as well as I can be for the years that I have left on this planet. My grandchildren deserve a Grammy who models self-love and self-cared. The hard work continues but it is worth it!
Lisa, I thank you deeply for this comment. Your family dynamics will surely mirror those of many of us here, and they certainly mirror stories of respondents to my original FSA research questionnaires. I'm relieved to hear that you have appropriate / necessary boundaries in place. Necessary if one is to heal and experience peace of mind and soul - which you can't put a price on. In regard to trying to make family or other people 'get it' - I discussed this at length about 3/4 of the way into my Livestream this past Wednesday - Linking you to it here. Use the transcript and search on ''don't get it' and it should take you to that part of my talk: https://familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/family-scapegoat-education-rebecca-mandeville
Beyond belief ...such prolonged agony Lisa ...glad you are keeping it at bay more ..keep strengthening your resolve 🙏
Lisa,
This is bizarre how closely I can relate to your story. Its like you just typed up my whole life.
Its so sad to have a lost child family member attempting suicide. Multiple times. My sister is lost and disconnected from all of us.
I don't FEEL anything when I hear she's tried to kill herself again and that bothers me.
But Rebecca's post is very stirring and encouraging. I feel like I've stayed silent long enough and might explode if I don't say anything.
So proud of your strength to get help, and break the cycle! So very amazed at what you've survived.
Thank you Laura. I am definitely a survivor as are you & many of us here. Getting therapy is so important in my opinion. I understand about your sister. The second time I did feel numb and that scared me! She is a survivor too, which I am grateful for.
Very well said! I too took a stand w/my older brother this past June, for all that your post stated! In late 24 I turned 70 and I’ve taken the stance you stated. I call it my turning point! No more am I playing the unfruitful dance of “one way friendship.” I’m a very good person, who always gives people the benefit of the doubt but when I realize things aren’t reciprocated & we’re not having fun that’s it for me. It’s their loss and I’ll extend my efforts elsewhere that bear more fruit for me.
Yes! It does seem when we get to a certain age we really are just done. When we are younger and conditioned into being bullied and dominated, it can take a lot - and a long, long time - to wake up to it, stand up to it - and decide: GAME OVER. (Never consented to play it in the first place).
Oh yes, that is the sad truth Rebecca. When I was younger I was too conditioned to put up with the degrading and cruel behaviors, didn't want to draw more of their fire, just wanted to keep the peace, etc. but it came with a huge cost.
Yes, and we've been paying for it ever since. No more.
Thank you! Excellent piece Rebecca! So much rings true for me.
Especially this...."You were little more than a toy, an object; something to control, use, abuse, and discard."
That is exactly how it goes, use you, abuse you and then discard you like a piece of trash.
Your work is instrumental in helping people realize just how abusive and unrelenting the FSA/IP narrative is so that FSA survivors can stand up and protect themselves much sooner.
Yeah, and they're genuinely stunned when you say "but what about me, what about what I want"
Like a home appliance began to talk
“like a home appliance began to talk” - YES!!! Perfect analogy!
Thank you 🙏
You're welcome. I was inspired by Zawn Villines of Liberating Motherhood. Her description of home appliance treatment in heterosexual relationships was eye - opening and made me aware of similar dynamic in other abusive relationships
Oh, you must read this Sylvia Plath poem then, if you don’t already know it. Of course, she committed suicide by sticking her head into an appliance (oven)… The poem is called ‘The Applicant’: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57419/the-applicant
Thanks, I haven't read it before. I'm a suicide attempt survivor myself, I unfortunately relate
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Ah, yes! I’m only vaguely familiar with Liberating Motherhood on Substack. I must read more of her work. I’m grateful for the recommendation. She nailed it! 😊
I just shared this with JS10 - one of my favorite Plath poems: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57419/the-applicant
omg i know i'm about to have my mind blown by this work... wow... I'm nervited (nervous/excited ) thito pursue it because this is the literal dynamic i'm waking up to in my marriage. I stopped being an appliance. Now my husband talks about all the old friends of his he wants to see. I'm like, "Oh? You're looking forward to seeing them? To hanging out?" His response is "I want to talk about myself and have someone be interested"
Well motherfucker so do i but that's why i have a therapist and friends, you treat me like a kitchen appliance - there when you need it for xyz function.
Hi Anna I'm taking a day off from substack today but I just had to give you the link to this Sylvia Plath poem, I think you'll see why by the time you get to the end of it: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57419/the-applicant
Enjoy your time away, we'll be here when you get back :)
Oh I needed to hear this today. This whole year has been about rising up and finding my own voice..slowly but surely and to finally feel and know I am my own shield..🎁💕thx to you, your book and the Grp and my daily somatic technics..blessed!
Love hearing about your progress, Sally, whooot!!!
What are somatic technics Sally ?
Thx for asking Mike. It’s called a bottom up therapy that deals with our nervous system. Trauma is held in the cells of our body. The healing then is to come from a place of safety. The techniques which involve somatic exercises is breath work, movement and sound…I took courses on it. When my nervous system is regulated I feel safe inside, and calm. It has helped me heal and my feelings don’t seem to high or low. YouTube has a lot of free information on it. Therapy for in a Nutshell..explains it well..Also Peter Levine on The Vagus Nerve..hope this helps…😊
Thanks so much def explore . 🙏
Oof, the awakening was the most maddeningly painful thing I have ever experienced. It's worse the closer you are to them or the better they've been able to deceive you. Thank you for sharing and encouragement!
Particularly difficult in collective cultures, as mentioned in my Livestream this week (great to see you there, btw) or families (like the Kennedy's) where the collective 'good' is enforced.
I'm afraid I don't know that much about the Kennedy's 😅. Yeah I had to break some very tall expectations and even though no one was being helpful they made me feel like a psychopath for setting boundaries of any kind. That's how I wound up in therapy and became the Identified Patient haha. I would also say that when I asserted myself and took back control of my life, they started having the existential tantrum instead because their little box of secrets was no longer in their grasp. I did not enjoy their terror, but I had to put them in the water to show them it doesn't bite I guess.
PS - Re: Kennedy's: Think family as football team, determined to win. And if you are a family member that can't play on the team, you're a big loser. (A developmentally disabled sister of JFK was given a lobotomy and shut away, for the most part - This is one such example. Classic narcissistic family system, with their father Joseph being the malignant narcissist and the mother being the enabler).
Yes - and we FSA targets ARE that little box of secrets. If you haven’t seen this video of mine on what happens when you start to heal and set appropriate boundaries, you may want to do so. Link here: https://youtu.be/gLptzBP_Arw
I will watch it when I get home later! Thank you for sharing!
Yes, Rebecca. You’ve captured that coming to awareness perfectly. Beautifully written, too.
Thank you, I found it an odd blend of prose and poetry but I was pleased with the end result. I love that I can do anything I want here in my personal reflections Substack, ha!
Poetry is a word that came to mind when I read it :)
Freedom is a great thing, isn’t it. I’m so glad you found this space to express your insights. We all benefit from your efforts.
Thank you, Adr - Only just now saw this comment of yours for some reason!
Powerful article ....what's struck me the most is the desperation of adult siblings to keep the fantasy . I am not entirely ready yet . But I'm tired of them. They don't deserve any more confrontations or explanations. I'm too exhausted and I have to move forever ..I'm feeling such physical pain these last few days in my stomach beelly ..intense clenching ...perhaps that the clutching at straws stool.. intense cold and heat ....hard to comprehend ..
Most of my trauma symptoms go to my stomach since childhood. Intense, terrible clenching, and then more recently heat, which I attribute to repressed rage. It is quite a journey, isn't it, healing from FSA...
thank you so much for enaaging rebecca ..its truly apprecated .i suppose for me is to try and acknowledge the message of that rage - and the action it requires just expressing it is pretty endless , though it def helps sometimes as it did me last wekk,,though frankly it wouldnt be neccessary if they were open to acknolwedging the hurt in both ther lives and mine,,,without acknoeledging our hurts how can we have compassion for each other,,,thats the whole point of a family or any relationship.. this is what im trying to put more and more into words...for them and myself. my expectaatrions they will consider it are very low...its more about there i made the offer ,i explained without all anger,,including explaining why one is driven to anger by the silence ..and for me ultimatly if i go no cnact even further than i have been ...i dont want my own anger to destroy me..(ie never get resolved),,but its tricky balance because if i dont just allow the anger ,at least in private ,,i dont get the clarity
Indeed. Another one for you. https://youtu.be/Xvndt89rii4
yes rebecca thank i listened . i basically just preparing myself for the inevitable end -the sooner the better . weve pretty much been no contaact for years already but thats not enough it seems for them to take the hint so im just preparing myself to make it abundantly clear i want no further contact....one thign is holding me back ,,,but im going to overcome that too
This is full of great stuff that I'm sure will benefit many who read it. Thank you for taking the time to let people know what's working for you. 🙏
Meaningful quotes for me including - “primal need to reclaim your humanity” and “cost of silence….greater than the fear of speaking”.
To be understood to this capacity, is soothing to my soul ! Thank you!💜
Yes 🙏😮💨🌱
Caroline, pardon my ignorance, but do you have a Mother's / Father's Day in Norway?
I was just thinking about you ☺️.
Yes we do - not the same days as in the US. I used to call my father to congratulate him, and he always said «I don’t care about Father’s day». I just understood that he doesn’t care about beeing a father 🤓. Or maybe he doesn’t understand that he is a father?
I care a lot about Mother’s day but my own children and husband don’t celebrate me to the level I believe I deserve 🤓🤓
Maybe next year buy a Tiara and celebrate away to your heart’s content!
Yes, yes. Or I can by myself a mug with «The world’s greatest mum» ☕️🤓
yes and buy them each one to remind them LOL
Several years ago I bought 2 big mugs that were on sale - I thought I just liked the size because they are big. One says, “How beautiful you are,” and the other says, “You make me smile.” I think my subconscious read them before I noticed them. One of my scoffers saw them on my counter and smirked. Sicko. They look different to me now - like a smile for me.
It is a strange thing Mike. I have grieved the mother wound. The lack of mothering and the lack of fathering. So when these days show up, I feel that I am the mother. That I mother myself. And maybe that is how it is ment to be? We start out with a mother and eventually we mother ourselves 🌱
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Wize move Caroline....."we eventually mother ourselves"! ......and we more than likely do a better job of it too!
Last week I asked the director of the DV shelter if I could send her an email including the PSA video that Rebecca did. I thought it was so moving and well done. I sent it to her and gave her a copy of Rebecca’s book. But I’m new there and can’t be too pushy, so I’ll give it some time before I ask her what she thought—or wait until she brings it up. I donated art supplies for them to use when they do one on one counseling with kids.
I like the idea of trying to focus more on becoming my own protector, and thank you for that Rebecca—-and I’m also trying to pay more attention to my life long need to try to prove my worth. It’s a tough fine line for me though as I do care deeply about So Many Things. ——As I continue to get settled in my new place I am noticing how loving my neighbors are, with each other and their family members. It’s such a glaring difference from my experience—-makes the tears come, but also gives me some hope. There aren’t any perfect families for sure. But there Are more functional families that we can try to become more connected to.
You're welcome, Donna, and my affirmation yesterday will further support your intention regarding self-protection
Rebecca,
When you talked about how this abuse holds us back, I can see with this article how powerful you are now. THIS ARTICLE IS SO PROFOUND AND ELOQUENT.
Are you going to put these into a printed book.
What a voice you have on paper and you're a singer.
Love it.
Thank you, Laura, I really appreciate this! I have many ideas percolating but I also feel a grave sense of responsibility to continue co-authoring peer-reviewed quantitative research on FSA because this is how you get the mental health field to take it seriously.
Oh my … YES! Very quietly for me, but definitely yes. And, their rejection, odd as it may seem, is a big plus as long as they stay away from me. Which mine, for the most part, do. Enough! Done! When I get to that point, any ‘emotional feeling’ for them is gone. I only just now read this part of the post. The first part was a doozy, and I had to take it in parts, slowly. While I never really caved to their “stuff,” standing against it wore me out, like a statue being chipped at from the bottom until it keels over, which I did. Then was told, “You can’t be THAT tired,” “Why should YOU feel worn out?” “It’s just your imagination.” (Lots of stories could be told). And other such lovely sentiments. At times, I wish I could express such uncaring attitudes, and be as mean-spirited as they (foo and some others) are. But, then again, just being me seems to drive them nutsy enough. Thank you, Rebecca, for this.
You're so welcome, you got some great analogies going on here, I love this visual of the statue being chipped from the bottom! And yes, I simply could not imagine treating some family members in the manner I have been treated. The fact is, they treat their pets better.